Wednesday, August 10, 2005

News at 11!

Chakira mattirs electricity on Shabbos — and no one says a word.


Blogger Lipman said...

Because it's not new, maybe.

8/10/2005 5:16 PM  
Blogger Mar Gavriel said...

Nir'eh li that electricity is muttar on Shabbath mei`iqqær hæddin. In general, I refrain from using it on Shabbath, because of the nearly universal minhagh to refrain from it. (In part, this minhagh is itself due to people's kavodh for the Hhazon Ish.) Occasionally, there will be pressing need, and I will use electricity on Shabbath with a shinnui (though never incandescent lights, because of gahhælæth shællemattækhæth issues).

On Yom Tov, I use electricity lekhættehhilla, because many families use electricity on Yom Tov, and therefore refraining from it cannot really be considered minhægh shennithpa‰shaT. I even use incandescent lights, because bi‰shul is permitted on Yom Tov.

8/10/2005 7:36 PM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...

Many families use electricity in Yom Tov? Really? And they specificly use it on Yontef but not on Shabbos? How come i've never heard of this before? Or are they all like my relatives, too scared to admit to doing it for fear of being labeled heretics/sinners?

I thought the rationale for using lights/electricity on Yontef was that if electricity is defined as fire, ma‘avir eish mei’eish is permitted on Yontef, and therefore "lighting" a light bulb or microwave from the current already in the wires is parallel to lighting a gas stove from a pre-existing candle.

I even had a dream about that once, which involved me using a computer on Yontef. I was really worried when i woke up :-P .

8/10/2005 7:56 PM  
Blogger Mar Gavriel said...

Last night, I dreamed that I needed to cook Shabbos dinner for one of my parents. However, it got too late, and I still hadn't gotten any cooking done. During bein hash-shemoshos, I fried some food in a frying pan, relying on the view that the night doesn't start until tzeis hak-kokhovim. After tzeis hak-kokhovim, though, I had no authority to rely on. I didn't know what to do, but then, Albert Einstein came downstairs, and cooked the rest of the meal. When I woke up (or was it still within the dream?), I began to think: Uh-oh, Albert Einstein is Jewish. Is the food therefore forbidden to eat on Shabbos?

When I was a kid, I used to have a recurring dream that I was writing on Shabbos. I always used to wake up very upset and worried. Dr. Freud would say that I have deep-seated antinomian desires in my unconscious.

Now, I have managed to mention two of the Three Great Secular Jews in this comment. And, of course, no good comment would be complete without a mention of Karl Marx. Oh, wait-- I have just mentioned him. There. That's the only mention he's going to get.

Now, I have included mentioned of all three of the Three Great Secular Jews in this comment. Good.

8/10/2005 8:45 PM  
Blogger torahumaddachic said...

I know many families who will adjust an electric rheostat on YT (but never on Shabbat, halila!) Is this the phenomenon to which you refer, mar gavriel?

8/11/2005 9:58 AM  
Blogger Shifra said...

"I began to think: Uh-oh, Albert Einstein is Jewish. Is the food therefore forbidden to eat on Shabbos?"

Yes, he's Jewish but he's also dead so maybe it's OK afterall.

8/11/2005 11:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

but he's also dead so maybe it's OCHEL MAY ZIV'CHAI MASIM


8/11/2005 2:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok Amshino, that one was funny

8/11/2005 8:30 PM  
Blogger fudge said...

does this mean that the universal 'while none of us would ever turn on a light on shabbos' example
is...what, a lie?

forgive me. i'm so confused.

turning a light on on shabbos has always been one of the most basic concepts i've been taught.

8/11/2005 10:14 PM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...


it's one of the most basic ones i've been taught too, but it seems that according to some/many authorities it's 'only' a minhag that's been accepted to law status, and according to the rav Chakira is quoting, it's perfectly permissible! Really interesting. Really weird.

8/11/2005 10:31 PM  
Blogger Lipman said...

I think there is much less doubt about "kindling a fire" than about "building" among poskim.

8/12/2005 2:58 AM  
Blogger Lipman said...

An interesting combination of two shittes held by some O poskem, viz. allowing electricity including switching on lights (or certain lights) and allowing (or preferring) electric light for ner shellashshabbos:

You're at a friend's place for the sude on Friday evening, come back home at 11.30, make broche, switch on the light and read a bit or the like.

8/15/2005 5:08 AM  
Blogger Mar Gavriel said...


Wow! Bizarre!

(Though not so bizarre after all, when you consider the fact that many people make the berokho on Yom Tov over a likht that they light on Yom Tov night. . . .)

Did you make iup this shitto, or did you hear it somewhere?

8/16/2005 10:21 AM  
Anonymous Lipman said...

Made it up, yontef came to mind as well.

Another less radical question is if you could use a "Shabbos Lamp" (my invention of a decade ago, BTW - they must have been tapping my brain). The mitzve is about providing light, rather than kindling it, inni'?

Greetings from TA.

8/19/2005 2:40 AM  
Blogger Mar Gavriel said...

Mazze "TA"? Tarjuum Unqelos?

8/19/2005 1:00 PM  
Anonymous Lipman said...

Tel Aviv. (Th' other one's usually abbreviated J-m, or in Hyvrid Y-m.)

8/22/2005 5:05 AM  
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