Wednesday, November 09, 2005

Back-Time: Solar Haiku (太陽「=日」の俳句)


(inspired by Rabbi Fleischmann's artisticness)

The Unconquered Sun
Sets behind the Palisades
Scared of my City


35 Comments:

Anonymous big brother said...

oh yeah
eat it, sun!
EVERYONE's scared of MY city!

11/09/2005 12:22 PM  
Blogger Mar Gavriel said...

Welcome back to the blogosphaere [sic]!

11/09/2005 2:21 PM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...

What do you mean 'welcome back'? I've been here the whole time :-P and am still fishing for comments on my previous post...

11/09/2005 3:59 PM  
Blogger Lab Rab said...

At first I thought "unconquered sun" was just bizarre ... who would try to conquer the sun? Then I read your reference to roman paganism, and I thought that chas vesholom Harav Steg was being swayed towards minus! (This despite your last post, which yes I know I didn't comment on!) But upon further reflection, it's clear that "unconquered sun" is a reference to the abortive attempt of the Babylonian tower builders to establish their dominion in the heavens. Now that that's taken care of, we can resume the story at Parshat Lech Lecha. :)

11/09/2005 4:41 PM  
Blogger The back of the hill said...

Okay, NOW I get it! Sorry, I'm dense.

11/09/2005 6:58 PM  
Blogger Mar Gavriel said...

Back of the Hill (and Steg), I still don't get it.

11/09/2005 7:07 PM  
Blogger The back of the hill said...

(日の俳句)

Yat nai fai kuy?
1. Sun.
2. Of (note: の derives from a Han-Tze used roughly like apostrophe ess).
3. Brush away, casual, minor.
4. Sentence(s).

Casual lyrics of the sun.

11/09/2005 7:08 PM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...

The Japanese says "Sun's Haiku". Not sure exactly how to pronounce it, since each kanji character has a number of different potential pronunciations depending on context.

LabRab:

Don't worry, no minus or ‘avoda zara involved. Think of it as along the lines of uvekhol elohey mitzrayim e‘eseh shefatim (Shemot 12:12).

11/09/2005 9:02 PM  
Blogger The back of the hill said...

I figured as much.

The Cantonese-y pronunciation I gave differs from the probable Japanese sounding of the characters by but little.

T'ang pronunciation of 'yat' became modern Mandarin 'ri' and Hokkien 'jit', the original character pronounced by the Japanese as 'no' is no longer much used in written Chinese (the Japanese reduced it to a cursive approximate), and the pronunciation of the last two characters, in Cantonese, is clearly similar to 'hai ku'.

In Mandarin it would be 'hei qu' (I think - not sure).

-------

Actually the difference is major - only someone writing down the sounds and looking at the characters sees the clear relationship.

To a Japanese or a Cantonese, unless they use Romaji a lot, the picture will be somewhat foggy (and the sounds almost entirely opaque).

11/09/2005 10:20 PM  
Blogger Shifra said...

Great Haiku, Sir Steg
Perhaps the comments should be
in this format too

11/10/2005 8:44 AM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...

Shifra! Don't do it!!!
Once, me and a friend haiku'd
For a whole hour!

(hour is two syllables)

11/10/2005 9:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Japanese pronunciation:(日の俳句)

日 hee
の no
俳句 hai-ku

If one wants to refer to the sun as an astronomical entity in Japanese, "Tai-yo" would probably be a better word choice than "hee." The word "hee" is typically used to refer to the idea of a day (i.e. a unit of time determined by the sun's rising and setting) as opposed to the sun itself.

11/10/2005 10:35 AM  
Blogger Shifra said...

"Shifra! Don't do it!!!
Once, me and a friend haiku'd
For a whole hour!"

I've done that before,
and I would do it again!
Warning: Don't dare me.

11/10/2005 10:37 AM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...

Hmmm... Taiyou?
Japanese Dictionary

太陽

So instead of Hi no Haiku it should be Taiyou no Haiku? I guess i'll change it...

Arigatou gozaimasu, Anonimusu-san!

11/10/2005 10:46 AM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...

Here is a preview
Of where we'll be very soon;
Transcript: me and friend.

»»»»»»»»»

haikus are silly,
too short to say anything:
no significance.


haikus are so short
because they are very deep;
you must be shallow.


...

I just discovered:
We have become our parents.
Bad jokes in haikus!


That is horrible!
Maybe we should stop right now,
possibly to sleep?


...

haha! This must stop!
Haikus are out of control!
Soon I'll talk this way!


...

yay for our haikus!
me and [2-syllable name]* are insane:
it's heredity.


«««««««««««««

*Huh? Hey... Waitasec...
'Shifra' has two syllables!
Are you my old friend?
;-)

11/10/2005 10:56 AM  
Blogger Shifra said...

oooh the mystery...
AM I Steg's old friend? Perhaps.
Nah, I don't think so.

11/10/2005 11:40 AM  
Blogger Mar Gavriel said...

Ah, but "Askshifra" has three syllables!

11/10/2005 12:45 PM  
Blogger Mar Gavriel said...

Lipman, are you following this?

Check your e-mail.

11/10/2005 1:30 PM  
Blogger Lipman said...

Lipman, are you following this?

Define 'following'!
I have been reading this -
wakarimasen.

11/10/2005 2:14 PM  
Blogger Shifra said...

"AskShifra" may have
Three syllables but it's my
blog's name, and not mine!

11/10/2005 2:18 PM  
Blogger Mar Gavriel said...

Why, then, is it writ
On top of your last post there
that AskShifra said.

Lipman, Ish-Sofo,
What means that last word you've writ,
"wakarimasen"?

11/10/2005 3:02 PM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...

分りません (わかりません)
wakarimasen = "i don't understand"

structural mistake!
wa-ka-ri-ma-se-n is
six morae, not five!

11/10/2005 5:10 PM  
Anonymous brother kayin said...

I cannot believe -
so much dweebiness on a
single comment page.

What all you guys need
is beer, a contact sport, and
a snarky sitcom.

I'm fairly certain
Y'all have more productive things
to do: Git-er-dun!

Days of word games and
nothing else? Accept my gift:
condescension.

The clock is striking
Six p.m. soon, and I'll go.
Yes, I have a job.

11/10/2005 5:10 PM  
Blogger Lipman said...

You're right, but who knew?
O tempora, o morae,
only you and I.

The Back of the Hill
might well have also known,
but who is counting?

11/10/2005 6:42 PM  
Blogger Shifra said...

"Days of word games and
nothing else? Accept my gift:
condescension."

That was quite a laugh
but look - you have written more
haiku than anyone!

11/10/2005 6:55 PM  
Blogger The back of the hill said...

太陽 Cantonese pron.: Taai Yeung. Mandarin: Ta Yang. The first character is a simple ideograph - imagine a person with arms outstretched, saying "the fish was this big!". Now derive from it the word 'very' (an exaggeration of big), and differentiate by adding one more stroke (originally underneath, but it crept upwards).

The second character originally meant the sunny side of the valley, as it's companion 'yin' meant the shaded side. Hence, by extension of meaning, warm, masculine, bold, vibrantly alive, hotheaded, and further such. In comparison, yin came to mean also cool, moist, quiet, feminine, and so forth.

So, 太陽 literally means the utterly manly thing (in the sky).

Yang is composed of a banner on the left side (which also refers to locations or placements), and on the right a compound with a sun on top, and a phonetic element on the bottom. Yin also has the banner, but instead shows swirls of fog, the one the bottom being meant as a mirror image of the one on top.


As you may have guessed by now, one of my favourite books is "Chinese Characters: Their Origin, Etymology, History, Classification and Signification", by Dr. L. Wieger. I've already worn out two copies, and am busy on my third (it is also a VERY handy reference book).


I'm taking the liberty of mirror posting this on Mis-DakDek, to fill the current void there, and perhaps start a sidetrack. It seems a good place for that.

http://mis-dakdek.blogspot.com/2005/11/z-cantonese-pron.html

11/10/2005 7:14 PM  
Anonymous rabbifleischmann said...

bloggers write haikus
-
they make comments, they stake ground
-
playing by the rules

11/10/2005 7:59 PM  
Blogger Mar Gavriel said...

You and I know that
"O tempor’, o morae" fills
But six syllables.

Is that why you wrote
"Might well have also known" in
Th’ corresponding line?

11/11/2005 9:17 AM  
Anonymous brother kayin said...

You're on thin ice, Marge -
Suspicious Apostrophes?
Looks like cheating here.

11/11/2005 9:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Saw the change in the post's title from 日 to 太陽. Glad to be of service!
Great blog, BTW. Keep 'em coming.

11/11/2005 11:55 AM  
Blogger dilbert said...

great broccoli forest
verdant and peduncular
on sale at pathmark

11/11/2005 12:23 PM  
Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...

Thanks, Anonymous!
(this comment is not haiku)
(...or maybe it is!)

Dilbert:
Some supermarkets
sell tasty kosher sushi;
eat it on Shabbat.

11/12/2005 6:28 PM  
Blogger dilbert said...

sushi, fish-no bones
dont want to seperate stuff
over on borrer

11/14/2005 5:15 PM  
Blogger B.BarNavi said...

In Mandarin it would be 'hei qu' (I think - not sure).

"Pai2 ju4". "Hei qu" 黑曲 would mean "black lyrics". But kudos for trying.

俳句 means "to line up sentences". Which makes complete sense.

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